In an interview published today with Sir John Chilcot,chairman of the
Inquiry into the Iraq Invasion in 2003, conducted
by BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg (“Tony Blair 'not straight' with UK
over Iraq, says Chilcot;” http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40510540),
Chilcot offered his opinion that the evidence Mr Blair gave the inquiry was
"emotionally truthful" but he relied on beliefs rather than facts.
I do not believe this is an accurate conclusion to
draw, as it is demonstrable Blair dissembled to Parliament, as I set out
below.
Jack Straw MP, former Labour Foreign Secretary at the time of the invasion of Iraq in March 2003, asserted to Parliament yesterday: “For the avoidance of doubt, however, the whole Security Council judged in November 2002 that there was a threat to international peace and security from Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction.
Firebrand Respect MP, George Galloway, who had correctly predicted mass chaos in Iraq if the invasion went ahead, bellowed back: “Because they believed you and Colin Powell.”
Veteran Labour MP, on whose speech Straw had intervened, retorted: “Because they were fooled.”
(http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmhansrd/cm150129/debtext/150129-0002.htm#15012949000001)
Flynn had been about to reveal, when Straw executed his disruptive intervention, that Straw and Blair had already known that Saddam’s Iraq no longer had WMDS in the autumn of 2002, when the United Nations was hoodwinked. He was in full flow pointing out: “We are being denied the truth. I find it astonishing that the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) does not agree there were no weapons of mass destruction. It is amazing if he still believes there was an imminent threat to British territory. I have a document—I have no time to go into its detail—referenced by Tony Blair as evidence of the existence of weapons of mass destruction and the threat posed. It concerns a meeting on 22 August 1995 at which the principal person giving evidence was a General Hussein Kamal. For goodness’ sake, read the document!”
What was behind this claim? You can read the full 15 page text of the document Flynn flourished in the House of Commons here: http://www.casi.org.uk/info/unscom950822.pdf
But
what was its provenance? Immediately below I reproduce an exchange between the
editor of media-watching group, Media
Lense, and the Today Programe over
an item on Iraqi WMD claims several
months before the now notorious sexed up
claims by Andrew Gilligan on the same
programme ( it also involved Gilligan, then the today Programme defence specialist)
Hello,
Don't
suppose anyone on this list has access to a transcript from last Friday's
Today
programme from about 0750? I'd like to see
just
what coverage they gave to the late Iraqi defector Hussein Kamel and his
testimony
regarding Iraqi's "weapons of mass destruction". Reliable defector or
not,
either way recent revelations re: the Kamel debriefing by UN weapons
inspectors
undermine Bush and Blair. But the story seems to have virtually sunk
without
trace (though there was a curious little article by Julian Borger in
Saturday's
Guardian).
Please
see the exchange below with Today editor
Kevin
Marsh......
David
Cromwell
Media
Lens
<A
From:
Media Lens editor
MarshSubject:
Today programme on Iraqi defector Hussein Kamel
Dear
Kevin Marsh,
The
report below [from FAIR, previously posted, and not included here]
regarding
Iraqi defector Hussein Kamel appears to be crucial regarding Iraq's
supposed
weapons of mass destruction - the crux of the case for war, so Bush and
Blair
tell us....
The Today programme picked this up last Friday - a
very short item at 0638
between Edward Stourton and defence correspondent
Andrew Gilligan. Virtually
nothing since then. It surely merits much closer
attention.
I look forward to hearing from you.
regards,(Dr)
David Cromwellco-editor, Media
Lenshttp://www.MediaLens.org
3
March, 2003Thanks for this - we did, actually, do rather more than you
recall:
we also covered the item at 0750 in an interview withou t defence
specialist,
extracts from the document, and interview with Dan Plesch and an
interview
with Rolf Ekeus who supervised the original debriefKJM
Remember,
this was early March 2003, a few weeks before
the UK Parliament was to make its fateful vote to invade Iraq, based
substantially on the believe Iraq had
WMDs, and was threatening to use them.
Here is an extraordinary, contemporary article about
an article in the International magazine
Newsweek, that broke the claims that Saddam had already destroyed his WMDs several
years before 2003
What did Kamel
Say?
Last week
Newsweek reported that Hussein Kamel told the CIA that Iraq did destroy all its
chemical and biological weapons. You’ll remember Kamal as the son-in-law who
defected, became a Western informant, then stupidly went back to Iraq, where he
was quickly executed.
Newsweek had been one of many publications that had held Kamel up as an information goldmine, one that proved Iraq was up to no good.
The Newsweek story failed to make clear how this information fit in with their years of other reporting.
Newsweek had been one of many publications that had held Kamel up as an information goldmine, one that proved Iraq was up to no good.
The Newsweek story failed to make clear how this information fit in with their years of other reporting.
Nobody
gives much guidance on how much of what we think about the programs is based on
Kamel. Much of what he said was backed up by documents, so it can’t be all
wrong.
March 3, 2003 Newsweek
Exclusive: The Defector’s Secrets
John Barry
Hussein Kamel, the highest-ranking Iraqi official ever to defect from Saddam Hussein’s inner circle, told CIA and British intelligence officers and U.N. inspectors in the summer of 1995 that after the gulf war, Iraq destroyed all its chemical and biological weapons stocks and the missiles to deliver them.Kamel was Saddam Hussein’s son-in-law and had direct knowledge of what he claimed: for 10 years he had run Iraq’s nuclear, chemical, biological and missile programs.
Saddam’s stone wall: Iraq still hasn’t satisfied the U.N. inspectors.(Saddam Hussein)(Irag shows no sign of changing its negative attitude toward weapons inspection by the United Nations)(Brief Article)
Gregory Beals John Barry
04/27/1998
Newsweek
Earlier this month, a report by another U.N. body, the International Atomic Energy Agency, revealed that Iraq tried to revive its nuclear-weapons program after the end of the Persian Gulf War in 1991. When the agency demanded an explanation, Baghdad said an “unauthorized” program had been run by Lt. Gen. Hussein Kamel, Saddam’s luckless son-in-law, who defected to Jordan in 1995 and then returned to Iraq, where he was killed. That effort now seems to have been shut down, and the IAEA is prepared to give Iraq a clean bill of health on nuclear weapons.
His secret weapon.(Saddam Hussein had a germ-warfare arsenal during Gulf War)
Christopher Dickey
09/04/1995
Newsweek
No hurry: Iraq’s germ-warfare program finally came to light because of the defection on Aug. 8 of Saddam’s son-in-law Lt. Gen. Hussein Kamel Hassan al-Majid, whom Ekeus describes as “the mastermind of the whole biological-weapons program.” With Kamel prepared to spill Saddam’s secrets, the Iraqis suddenly provided Ekeus with reams of information on their outlawed program. The defection will apparently not lead to Saddam’s downfall in the near future. Once again, the dictator was crushing any potential challengers at home. And given the lack of an acceptable successor to Saddam, even U.S. allies in the Middle East were in no hurry to see him fall, as long as he remains politically and militarily weakened.
But the forced revelations have deprived Saddam of his most potent secret weapon. “They kept biology as the prize,” Ekeus told Newsweek. He said the Iraqi strategy was to get economic sanctions fitted without revealing the secret of the biological weapons. Germ warfare could have given Saddam “an ideal strategic weapon,” Ekeus said, assuming he had an effective longrange delivery method. Delivered secretly, it also could have been “the ideal terrorism weapon.” Now if Iraq wants to escape from the economic sanctions that are choking it, Baghdad will have to prove that it has given up its doomsday weapons.
RELATED ARTICLE: Doomsday Arsenal
Iraq now concedes its program to make weapons of mass destruction was far more advanced than it admitted before.
* Biological: Outsiders learned for the first time that anthrax germs and botulism poisons were actually loaded into Iraqi missile warheads and bombs. If inhaled, both agents kill by destroying the ability to breathe. Iraq also loaded a little-known fungal poison called aflatoxin, which may cause cancer, and it experimented with infectious viruses.
* Nuclear: Baghdad also provided new information showing that its nuclear program was more advanced than the allies knew. In August 1990, the month it invaded Kuwait, Iraq reportedly began a crash program to produce a nuclear weapon within a year. It failed.
* Chemical: Iraq’s supply of mustard gas and nerve agents such as sarin was well known, having been used in combat against Iran and Kurdish rebels. Mustard burns skin and lungs but is much less lethal than sarin, which paralyzes.
March 3, 2003 Newsweek
Exclusive: The Defector’s Secrets
John Barry
Hussein Kamel, the highest-ranking Iraqi official ever to defect from Saddam Hussein’s inner circle, told CIA and British intelligence officers and U.N. inspectors in the summer of 1995 that after the gulf war, Iraq destroyed all its chemical and biological weapons stocks and the missiles to deliver them.Kamel was Saddam Hussein’s son-in-law and had direct knowledge of what he claimed: for 10 years he had run Iraq’s nuclear, chemical, biological and missile programs.
Saddam’s stone wall: Iraq still hasn’t satisfied the U.N. inspectors.(Saddam Hussein)(Irag shows no sign of changing its negative attitude toward weapons inspection by the United Nations)(Brief Article)
Gregory Beals John Barry
04/27/1998
Newsweek
Earlier this month, a report by another U.N. body, the International Atomic Energy Agency, revealed that Iraq tried to revive its nuclear-weapons program after the end of the Persian Gulf War in 1991. When the agency demanded an explanation, Baghdad said an “unauthorized” program had been run by Lt. Gen. Hussein Kamel, Saddam’s luckless son-in-law, who defected to Jordan in 1995 and then returned to Iraq, where he was killed. That effort now seems to have been shut down, and the IAEA is prepared to give Iraq a clean bill of health on nuclear weapons.
His secret weapon.(Saddam Hussein had a germ-warfare arsenal during Gulf War)
Christopher Dickey
09/04/1995
Newsweek
No hurry: Iraq’s germ-warfare program finally came to light because of the defection on Aug. 8 of Saddam’s son-in-law Lt. Gen. Hussein Kamel Hassan al-Majid, whom Ekeus describes as “the mastermind of the whole biological-weapons program.” With Kamel prepared to spill Saddam’s secrets, the Iraqis suddenly provided Ekeus with reams of information on their outlawed program. The defection will apparently not lead to Saddam’s downfall in the near future. Once again, the dictator was crushing any potential challengers at home. And given the lack of an acceptable successor to Saddam, even U.S. allies in the Middle East were in no hurry to see him fall, as long as he remains politically and militarily weakened.
But the forced revelations have deprived Saddam of his most potent secret weapon. “They kept biology as the prize,” Ekeus told Newsweek. He said the Iraqi strategy was to get economic sanctions fitted without revealing the secret of the biological weapons. Germ warfare could have given Saddam “an ideal strategic weapon,” Ekeus said, assuming he had an effective longrange delivery method. Delivered secretly, it also could have been “the ideal terrorism weapon.” Now if Iraq wants to escape from the economic sanctions that are choking it, Baghdad will have to prove that it has given up its doomsday weapons.
RELATED ARTICLE: Doomsday Arsenal
Iraq now concedes its program to make weapons of mass destruction was far more advanced than it admitted before.
* Biological: Outsiders learned for the first time that anthrax germs and botulism poisons were actually loaded into Iraqi missile warheads and bombs. If inhaled, both agents kill by destroying the ability to breathe. Iraq also loaded a little-known fungal poison called aflatoxin, which may cause cancer, and it experimented with infectious viruses.
* Nuclear: Baghdad also provided new information showing that its nuclear program was more advanced than the allies knew. In August 1990, the month it invaded Kuwait, Iraq reportedly began a crash program to produce a nuclear weapon within a year. It failed.
* Chemical: Iraq’s supply of mustard gas and nerve agents such as sarin was well known, having been used in combat against Iran and Kurdish rebels. Mustard burns skin and lungs but is much less lethal than sarin, which paralyzes.
Defector’s testimony confuses case against Iraq.
By Julian Borger in Washington.
03/01/2003 The Guardian
Hussein Kamel, the former head of Iraq’s weapons programmes whose 1995 defection has been portrayed by the US and Britain as evidence of Iraqi deceit and the futility of inspections, was a “consummate liar”, according to the last weapons inspector to interrogate him.
The transcript of the interrogation, leaked this week to Newsweek magazine and seen by the Guardian, makes it clear that the defector’s testimony on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction was inconclusive and often misleading.
The emergence of the classified statements weakens the case the US and Britain has tried to build against Saddam Hussein, in which Kamel’s defection has been used to bolster claims that Iraq still has thousands of tonnes of chemical and biological weapons for which it has not accounted.
They reveal that Kamel, who was President Saddam’s son-in-law, told UN inspectors that Iraq had destroyed all its chemical and biological weapons and abandoned its nuclear programme after the Gulf war. But he said blueprints, documents, computer files and moulds for missile parts had been hidden.
Rolf Ekeus, the former chief UN weapons inspector who oversaw the interrogation in August 1995, said much of the chemical arsenal had been destroyed by the inspectors, not Baghdad.
Mr Ekeus agreed that the Iraqi government had probably eliminated its biological arsenal but said he remained convinced that “seed stocks” of bacteria had been retained as well as growth media and fermenters so it could quickly reconstitute its arsenal.
Kamel, who had been the director of Iraq’s military industrial establishment, was assassinated soon after his mysterious decision to return to Iraq just weeks after his high-profile defection.
The US and British governments have pointed to the defection to emphasise the extent of Iraq’s weapons programmes and the inherent weakness of inspections.
But Mr Ekeus pointed out that Unscom, the UN special commission on Iraq, had already discovered a lot about the Iraqi pre-war biological programme earlier that year, forcing Baghdad’s admission in July, a month before Kamel’s defection, that it had pursued germ warfare.
The transcript of Kamel’s interrogation reveals a far more ambiguous picture than the one portrayed in Washington and London.
“Kamel was a consummate liar,” Mr Ekeus said.
While the transcript of the interrogation makes it clear that the defection was less than a breakthrough, it had a psychological impact on Baghdad. The Iraqi government, unsure what he was going to tell the inspectors, became much more forthcoming.
Before Mr Ekeus arrived in Amman to interrogate Kamel, the Iraqis invited him to Baghdad to hand over documents and then took him to Kamel’s chicken farm where several metal containers full of documents had been buried.
“They wanted to blame it all on Kamel,” Mr Ekeus said. “But Kamel was just carrying out the government’s policy.”
By Julian Borger in Washington.
03/01/2003 The Guardian
Hussein Kamel, the former head of Iraq’s weapons programmes whose 1995 defection has been portrayed by the US and Britain as evidence of Iraqi deceit and the futility of inspections, was a “consummate liar”, according to the last weapons inspector to interrogate him.
The transcript of the interrogation, leaked this week to Newsweek magazine and seen by the Guardian, makes it clear that the defector’s testimony on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction was inconclusive and often misleading.
The emergence of the classified statements weakens the case the US and Britain has tried to build against Saddam Hussein, in which Kamel’s defection has been used to bolster claims that Iraq still has thousands of tonnes of chemical and biological weapons for which it has not accounted.
They reveal that Kamel, who was President Saddam’s son-in-law, told UN inspectors that Iraq had destroyed all its chemical and biological weapons and abandoned its nuclear programme after the Gulf war. But he said blueprints, documents, computer files and moulds for missile parts had been hidden.
Rolf Ekeus, the former chief UN weapons inspector who oversaw the interrogation in August 1995, said much of the chemical arsenal had been destroyed by the inspectors, not Baghdad.
Mr Ekeus agreed that the Iraqi government had probably eliminated its biological arsenal but said he remained convinced that “seed stocks” of bacteria had been retained as well as growth media and fermenters so it could quickly reconstitute its arsenal.
Kamel, who had been the director of Iraq’s military industrial establishment, was assassinated soon after his mysterious decision to return to Iraq just weeks after his high-profile defection.
The US and British governments have pointed to the defection to emphasise the extent of Iraq’s weapons programmes and the inherent weakness of inspections.
But Mr Ekeus pointed out that Unscom, the UN special commission on Iraq, had already discovered a lot about the Iraqi pre-war biological programme earlier that year, forcing Baghdad’s admission in July, a month before Kamel’s defection, that it had pursued germ warfare.
The transcript of Kamel’s interrogation reveals a far more ambiguous picture than the one portrayed in Washington and London.
“Kamel was a consummate liar,” Mr Ekeus said.
While the transcript of the interrogation makes it clear that the defection was less than a breakthrough, it had a psychological impact on Baghdad. The Iraqi government, unsure what he was going to tell the inspectors, became much more forthcoming.
Before Mr Ekeus arrived in Amman to interrogate Kamel, the Iraqis invited him to Baghdad to hand over documents and then took him to Kamel’s chicken farm where several metal containers full of documents had been buried.
“They wanted to blame it all on Kamel,” Mr Ekeus said. “But Kamel was just carrying out the government’s policy.”
In light of this, how
did Tony Blair report to Parliament - in the debate and fateful vote that finally took us to war - what the British Government ( including Straw
) knew of the Hussein Kamal claims?
Iraq
[Relevant document: The Fourth Report from the
International Development Committee, on Preparing for the humanitarian
consequences of possible military action against Iraq (HC444-I).] Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan
Haselhurst): I have to inform the House that Mr. Speaker has selected the
amendment in the name of the right hon. Member for Islington, South and
Finsbury (Mr. Smith).
12.35 pm
The Prime Minister (Mr. Tony Blair): I beg to move,
......In August, it provided yet another full and final declaration. Then, a week later, Saddam's son-in-law, Hussein Kamal, defected to Jordan. He disclosed a far more extensive biological weapons programme and, for the first time, said that Iraq had weaponised the programme—something that Saddam had always strenuously denied. All this had been happening while the inspectors were in Iraq.
Kamal also revealed Iraq's crash programme to produce a nuclear weapon in the 1990s. Iraq was then forced to release documents that showed just how extensive those programmes were. In November 1996, Jordan intercepted prohibited components for missiles
......In August, it provided yet another full and final declaration. Then, a week later, Saddam's son-in-law, Hussein Kamal, defected to Jordan. He disclosed a far more extensive biological weapons programme and, for the first time, said that Iraq had weaponised the programme—something that Saddam had always strenuously denied. All this had been happening while the inspectors were in Iraq.
Kamal also revealed Iraq's crash programme to produce a nuclear weapon in the 1990s. Iraq was then forced to release documents that showed just how extensive those programmes were. In November 1996, Jordan intercepted prohibited components for missiles
18 Mar 2003 :
Column 762
that could be used for weapons of mass destruction. Then a further "full and final declaration" was made. That, too, turned out to be false.
that could be used for weapons of mass destruction. Then a further "full and final declaration" was made. That, too, turned out to be false.
A
week later, Llew Smith MP, a Labour back bencher, and opponent of the
war, for whom I then worked, asked Prime
Minister Blair this question:
26 Mar 2003 : Column 235W
PRIME
MINISTER
Llew Smith: To ask the Prime Minister pursuant to his statement of
18 March 2003, Official Report, columns 761–62, on the information
provided by Hussein Kamal on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, if he will
place in the Library the text of the interview. [104714]
The Prime Minister: Following his defection, Hussein Kamal was
interviewed by UNSCOM and by a number of other agencies. Details concerning the interviews were made available
to us on a confidential basis. The UK was not provided with transcripts
of the interviews.
But Blair inexplicably did I not
find time to share with Parliament the other revelation made by Kamel
viz: “all weapons – biological, chemical, missile, nuclear were
destroyed”.
It was a disgraceful deception of Parliament; but other MPs
should have been less gullible, more inquisitive, and have scrutinized
Government assertions with greater commitment by demanding evidence. Pity they
didn’t: if they had, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians and 179 brave British
military may still be alive today. And many more would not be maimed for
life.
Tuesday,
30 April 2013
The Truth still matters
Tony Blair is at it again!
He’s been roughing up the embers of the Iraq
fires, on the tenth anniversary of the invasion. In his recent Newsnight interview, he proclaimed he has
long since given up trying to persuade people it was the right decision. His
current position seesm to be regime change in Iraq, the removal Saddam, was
essential for the peace.But that was not his argument at the time: then, it
was all about alleged Iraqi WMDs, and alleged Iraqi non-compliance with UN
resolutions.
Jack Straw, Blair's Foreign Secretary at the
time of the invasion, recalling the build up to the invasion of Iraq, wrote (at
page 22) of his memorandum to the Chilcot Inquiry in to the Iraq debacle:
."..the Iraqi régime had for four years following the Gulf War, and not withstanding the best efforts of UNSCOM Inspectors and intelligence agencies, been successful in wholly concealing an extensive biological weapons programme (including anthrax bacillus, smallpox virus, VX nerve agent). All that Iraq had admitted was “small scale, defensive” research. It was not until the lucky break of the defection of Saddam Hussein’s son-in-law (Lieutenant-General Hussein Kamel) that even the fact of this programme was revealed."
."..the Iraqi régime had for four years following the Gulf War, and not withstanding the best efforts of UNSCOM Inspectors and intelligence agencies, been successful in wholly concealing an extensive biological weapons programme (including anthrax bacillus, smallpox virus, VX nerve agent). All that Iraq had admitted was “small scale, defensive” research. It was not until the lucky break of the defection of Saddam Hussein’s son-in-law (Lieutenant-General Hussein Kamel) that even the fact of this programme was revealed."
He cites Hussein Kamel in support of what he
claims was a well-founded belief - shared by all but the then Russian
intelligence services - that Iraq possessed WMDs in 2002/03.
But Mr Straw and his then boss, Tony Blair, knew Saddam had no WMD at least six years before he colluded with George Bush to illegally invade Iraq. This was because what was reported originally in US magazine Newsweek in its first issue of March 2003 edition.
But Mr Straw and his then boss, Tony Blair, knew Saddam had no WMD at least six years before he colluded with George Bush to illegally invade Iraq. This was because what was reported originally in US magazine Newsweek in its first issue of March 2003 edition.
But it then oddly, but conveniently for
warmongers, disappeared from the pre-invasion public debate.
Hussein Kamel, the former director of Iraq's Military Industrialisation Corporation - which was in charge of Iraq's weapons programmes - defected to Jordan in 1995 together with his brother Colonel Saddam Kamel. They took with them crates of documents revealing past weapons programmes and provided these to UNSCOM, the United Nations WMD inspection team.
Hussein and Saddam Kamel ill-advisedly agreed to return to Iraq, where they were assassinated on February 23 1996 by agents of their father -in-law, led by 'Chemical Ali', himself later executed.
Fifteen days after Hussein Kamel left Iraq he
was interviewed by UNSCOM director, Rolf Ekeus, International Atomic Energy
Agency deputy director and head of the inspections team in Iraq Professor
Maurizio Zifferero and Nikita Smidovich, a Russian diplomat who led UNSCOM's
ballistic missile team.
In the transcript of the interview, Kamel states categorically: "I ordered destruction of all chemical weapons. All weapons - biological, chemical, missile, nuclear - were destroyed." Kamel specifically discusses the significance of anthrax, which he portrays as the "main focus" of the biological programme.
Smidovich asks Kamel: "Were weapons and agents destroyed?" Kamel replies: "Nothing remained." He also describes the elimination of prohibited missiles. "Not a single missile left, but they had blueprints and molds for production. All missiles were destroyed." On VX nerve gas, he claims: "They put it in bombs during last days of the Iran-Iraq war. They were not used and the programme was terminated."
Ekeus asks Kamel: "Did you restart VX production after the Iran-Iraq war?" Kamel replies: "We changed the factory into pesticide production. Part of the establishment started to produce medicine ... We gave instructions not to produce chemical weapons."
According to Ekeus "Kamel was a consummate liar." Maybe so, but on this crucial matter it turns out his facts were more truthful and accurate than Tony Blair's.
Former Labour MP Llew Smith, who strongly opposed the invasion - for whom I worked at the time - also raised these matters in an unreported parliamentary debate on Iraq held in June 2003, barely a month after Bush proclaimed "mission accomplished" in Iraq.
Smith pointed out that "we continue to be told that war with Iraq was necessary because Iraq had those weapons of mass destruction which were a threat to the world and because it was willing to use them and could deliver them within 45 minutes, yet we have still not found those weapons."
In fact Smith was the first MP to raise doubts over the now infamous 45-minute claim.
As long ago as October 2002 - just a month after the government's "distorted dossier" on Iraq's fantasy WMD was published - Smith challenged Blair on the basis of the dossier's assertion that Saddam was determined to retain the weapons of mass destruction that the dossier discusses.
And Smith asked him if he would "set out the technical basis for the assertion ... that chemical or biological weapons could be deployed within 45 minutes of an order to do so." Blair disingenuously and shamefacedly lied: "These points reflect specific intelligence information."
I sent Sir John Chilcot the full text of the Kamel interview. (The transcript is available at:
In the transcript of the interview, Kamel states categorically: "I ordered destruction of all chemical weapons. All weapons - biological, chemical, missile, nuclear - were destroyed." Kamel specifically discusses the significance of anthrax, which he portrays as the "main focus" of the biological programme.
Smidovich asks Kamel: "Were weapons and agents destroyed?" Kamel replies: "Nothing remained." He also describes the elimination of prohibited missiles. "Not a single missile left, but they had blueprints and molds for production. All missiles were destroyed." On VX nerve gas, he claims: "They put it in bombs during last days of the Iran-Iraq war. They were not used and the programme was terminated."
Ekeus asks Kamel: "Did you restart VX production after the Iran-Iraq war?" Kamel replies: "We changed the factory into pesticide production. Part of the establishment started to produce medicine ... We gave instructions not to produce chemical weapons."
According to Ekeus "Kamel was a consummate liar." Maybe so, but on this crucial matter it turns out his facts were more truthful and accurate than Tony Blair's.
Former Labour MP Llew Smith, who strongly opposed the invasion - for whom I worked at the time - also raised these matters in an unreported parliamentary debate on Iraq held in June 2003, barely a month after Bush proclaimed "mission accomplished" in Iraq.
Smith pointed out that "we continue to be told that war with Iraq was necessary because Iraq had those weapons of mass destruction which were a threat to the world and because it was willing to use them and could deliver them within 45 minutes, yet we have still not found those weapons."
In fact Smith was the first MP to raise doubts over the now infamous 45-minute claim.
As long ago as October 2002 - just a month after the government's "distorted dossier" on Iraq's fantasy WMD was published - Smith challenged Blair on the basis of the dossier's assertion that Saddam was determined to retain the weapons of mass destruction that the dossier discusses.
And Smith asked him if he would "set out the technical basis for the assertion ... that chemical or biological weapons could be deployed within 45 minutes of an order to do so." Blair disingenuously and shamefacedly lied: "These points reflect specific intelligence information."
I sent Sir John Chilcot the full text of the Kamel interview. (The transcript is available at:
Dr David Lowry is an independent
research consultant and a former researcher for Llew Smith MP
Monday,
4 July 2016
As preparations for the invasion of Iraq later that month were ramped-up
to deafening decibel levels in Washington
and London, the Guardian’s then
Washington Editor, Julian Borger – now World Affairs Editor- filed an
intriguing story (“Defector’s testimony confuses case against Iraq, I March 2003, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/mar/01/iraq.julianborger) which included the following revelation: “The transcript of the interrogation of
Hussein Kamel, the former head of Iraq’s weapons programmes and Saddam’s
son-in-law [who defected in 1995 to Jordan] - leaked this week to Newsweek
magazine and seen by the Guardian- reveal that Kamel told UN inspectors that
Iraq had destroyed all its chemical and biological weapons and abandoned its
nuclear programme after the Gulf war.”
Borger opined that “The emergence of the classified statements weakens the case the US and Britain has tried to build against Saddam Hussein, in which Kamel’s defection has been used to bolster claims that Iraq still has thousands of tonnes of chemical and biological weapons for which it has not accounted.”
Despite it obvious and urgent importance,
this story almost entirely disappeared from political discourse and scrutiny,
and was not followed up in the Guardian, or indeed any other media, print, broadcast or electronic,
subsequently in March 2003, as the drums of war beat louder. Why was this?
Immediately below I
reproduce an exchange between the editor of media-watching group, Media
Lense, Dr David Cromwell, and the BBC Today Programe over an item on
Iraqi WMD claims several months before the now notorious ‘sexed-up’
claims by Andrew Gilligan on the same programme (it also involved
Gilligan, then the Today Programme
defence specialist). It is preceded by an open request for further
primary source material on an internet list
Re: Today item on Iraqi defector
Hello,
Don't suppose anyone on
this list has access to a transcript from last Friday's
Today programme from about 0750? I'd like to see
just what coverage they gave to the late Iraqi defector Hussein Kamel and his
testimony regarding Iraqi's "weapons of mass destruction". Reliable
defector or not, either way recent revelations re: the Kamel debriefing by UN
weapons inspectors undermine Bush and Blair. But the story seems to have
virtually sunk without trace (though there was a curious little article by Julian
Borger in Saturday's Guardian).
Please see the exchange
below with Today editor, Kevin Marsh......
David Cromwell, Media Lens
From: Media Lens To: Kevin
Marsh
Subject: Today programme
on Iraqi defector Hussein Kamel
Sent: 03 March 2003
09:46
Dear Kevin Marsh,
The report below [from
FAIR, previously posted, and not included here]
regarding Iraqi defector
Hussein Kamel appears to be crucial regarding Iraq's
supposed weapons of mass
destruction - the crux of the case for war, so Bush and
Blair tell us.... The
Today programme picked this up last Friday- a very short item between Edward
Stourton and defence correspondent Andrew Gilligan. Virtually nothing since
then. It surely merits much closer attention. I look forward to hearing from
you
regards,(Dr) David
Cromwell, co-editor, Media
Reply by Kevin Marsh
3 March, 2003
Thanks for this - we
did, actually, do rather more than you recall: we also covered the item at 0750
in an interview without defence specialist, extracts from the document, and
interview with Dan Plesch and an interview with Rolf Ekeus who supervised the
original debrief
-KJM
Remember, this was early
March 2003, a few weeks before the UK Parliament was to make its fateful
vote to invade Iraq, based substantially on the believe Iraq had WMDs,
and was threatening to use them.
Here is the
extraordinary, contemporary article about an article in the International
magazine Newsweek, mentioned by Borger above, that broke the claims that
Saddam had already destroyed his WMDs several years before 2003.
What did Kamel Say?
“Last week Newsweek reported that Hussein Kamel
told the CIA that Iraq did destroy all its chemical and biological weapons.
You’ll remember Kamal as the son-in-law who defected, became a Western
informant, then stupidly went back to Iraq, where he was quickly executed.
Newsweek had been one of many publications that had held Kamel up as an information goldmine, one that proved Iraq was up to no good.
The Newsweek story failed to make clear how this information fit in with their years of other reporting….”
Newsweek had been one of many publications that had held Kamel up as an information goldmine, one that proved Iraq was up to no good.
The Newsweek story failed to make clear how this information fit in with their years of other reporting….”
Exclusive: The Defector’s Secrets
Newsweek, March 3, 2003, by John Barry
“Nobody gives much
guidance on how much of what we think about the programs is based on Kamel.
Much of what he said was backed up by documents, so it can’t be all wrong.
Hussein Kamel, the highest-ranking Iraqi official ever to defect from Saddam Hussein’s inner circle, told CIA and British intelligence officers and U.N. inspectors in the summer of 1995 that after the gulf war, Iraq destroyed all its chemical and biological weapons stocks and the missiles to deliver them.Kamel was Saddam Hussein’s son-in-law and had direct knowledge of what he claimed: for 10 years he had run Iraq’s nuclear, chemical, biological and missile programs”
Hussein Kamel, the highest-ranking Iraqi official ever to defect from Saddam Hussein’s inner circle, told CIA and British intelligence officers and U.N. inspectors in the summer of 1995 that after the gulf war, Iraq destroyed all its chemical and biological weapons stocks and the missiles to deliver them.Kamel was Saddam Hussein’s son-in-law and had direct knowledge of what he claimed: for 10 years he had run Iraq’s nuclear, chemical, biological and missile programs”
On 4 September 1995, Newsweek had also reported:
“No hurry: Iraq’s germ-warfare program finally came to light because of the defection on Aug. 8 [1995]of Saddam’s son-in-law Lt. Gen. Hussein Kamel Hassan al-Majid, whom Ekeus describes as “the mastermind of the whole biological-weapons program.” With Kamel prepared to spill Saddam’s secrets, the Iraqis suddenly provided Ekeus with reams of information on their outlawed program. The defection will apparently not lead to Saddam’s downfall in the near future. Once again, the dictator was crushing any potential challengers at home. And given the lack of an acceptable successor to Saddam, even U.S. allies in the Middle East were in no hurry to see him fall, as long as he remains politically and militarily weakened.”
A decade later, this murky story was taken
up in Parliament by veteran Labour MP, Paul Flynn, recently appointed as Shadow
Leader of the House of Commons, in a dabat eon theIraqInquiry, hel don 29
January 2015.
Jack Straw, the former Labour Foreign
Secretary at the time of the invasion of Iraq in March 2003, and then a
backbench MP, asserted to MPs in the debate: “For the avoidance of doubt,
however, the whole Security Council judged in November 2002 that there was a
threat to international peace and security from Saddam’s weapons of mass
destruction.”
George Galloway, the firebrand antiwar then MP for the Respect Party - who had correctly predicted mass chaos in Iraq if the invasion went ahead - bellowed back: “Because they believed you and Colin Powell.”
Paul Flynn on whose speech Straw had intervened, retorted: “Because they were fooled.”
(http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmhansrd/cm150129/debtext/150129-0002.htm#15012949000001)
Flynn had been about to reveal, when Straw executed his disruptive intervention, that Straw and Blair had already known that Saddam’s Iraq no longer had WMDs in the autumn of 2002, when the United Nations was hoodwinked. He was in full flow pointing out: “We are being denied the truth. I find it astonishing that the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) does not agree there were no weapons of mass destruction. It is amazing if he still believes there was an imminent threat to British territory. I have a document—I have no time to go into its detail—referenced by Tony Blair as evidence of the existence of weapons of mass destruction and the threat posed. It concerns a meeting on 22 August 1995 at which the principal person giving evidence was a General Hussein Kamel. For goodness’ sake, read the document!”
What was behind this claim? The full 15 page text of the document Flynn flourished in the House of Commons may be read here: http://www.casi.org.uk/info/unscom950822.pdf
George Galloway, the firebrand antiwar then MP for the Respect Party - who had correctly predicted mass chaos in Iraq if the invasion went ahead - bellowed back: “Because they believed you and Colin Powell.”
Paul Flynn on whose speech Straw had intervened, retorted: “Because they were fooled.”
(http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmhansrd/cm150129/debtext/150129-0002.htm#15012949000001)
Flynn had been about to reveal, when Straw executed his disruptive intervention, that Straw and Blair had already known that Saddam’s Iraq no longer had WMDs in the autumn of 2002, when the United Nations was hoodwinked. He was in full flow pointing out: “We are being denied the truth. I find it astonishing that the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) does not agree there were no weapons of mass destruction. It is amazing if he still believes there was an imminent threat to British territory. I have a document—I have no time to go into its detail—referenced by Tony Blair as evidence of the existence of weapons of mass destruction and the threat posed. It concerns a meeting on 22 August 1995 at which the principal person giving evidence was a General Hussein Kamel. For goodness’ sake, read the document!”
What was behind this claim? The full 15 page text of the document Flynn flourished in the House of Commons may be read here: http://www.casi.org.uk/info/unscom950822.pdf
In light of this, how
did Tony Blair report to Parliament - in the debate and fateful vote that
finally took us to war - what the British Government ( including Straw )
knew of the Hussein Kamel claims?
Iraq
[Relevant document: The Fourth Report from
the International Development Committee, on Preparing for the humanitarian
consequences of possible military action against Iraq (HC444-I).] Mr.
Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): I have to inform the House that Mr.
Speaker has selected the amendment in the name of the right hon. Member for
Islington, South and Finsbury (Mr. Smith).
12.35 pm
The Prime Minister (Mr. Tony Blair)
......In August [1995], it provided yet another full and final declaration. Then, a week later, Saddam's son-in-law, Hussein Kamel, defected to Jordan. He disclosed a far more extensive biological weapons programme and, for the first time, said that Iraq had weaponised the programme—something that Saddam had always strenuously denied. All this had been happening while the inspectors were in Iraq.
Kamel also revealed Iraq's crash programme to produce a nuclear weapon in the 1990s. Iraq was then forced to release documents that showed just how extensive those programmes were. In November 1996, Jordan intercepted prohibited components for missiles that could be used for weapons of mass destruction. Then a further "full and final declaration" was made. That, too, turned out to be false. (Hansard, 18 March 2003 : Column 762
......In August [1995], it provided yet another full and final declaration. Then, a week later, Saddam's son-in-law, Hussein Kamel, defected to Jordan. He disclosed a far more extensive biological weapons programme and, for the first time, said that Iraq had weaponised the programme—something that Saddam had always strenuously denied. All this had been happening while the inspectors were in Iraq.
Kamel also revealed Iraq's crash programme to produce a nuclear weapon in the 1990s. Iraq was then forced to release documents that showed just how extensive those programmes were. In November 1996, Jordan intercepted prohibited components for missiles that could be used for weapons of mass destruction. Then a further "full and final declaration" was made. That, too, turned out to be false. (Hansard, 18 March 2003 : Column 762
A week later, Llew
Smith MP, a Labour back bencher, and opponent of the war, for whom I then
worked, asked prime minister Blair this question:
Llew Smith: To ask the Prime Minister pursuant to his statement of 18 March 2003, Official Report, columns 761–62, on the information provided by Hussein Kamel on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, if he will place in the Library the text of the interview. [104714]
Llew Smith: To ask the Prime Minister pursuant to his statement of 18 March 2003, Official Report, columns 761–62, on the information provided by Hussein Kamel on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, if he will place in the Library the text of the interview. [104714]
The Prime Minister: Following his
defection, Hussein Kamel was interviewed by UNSCOM and by a number of other
agencies. Details concerning the
interviews were made available to us on a confidential basis The UK was not
provided with transcripts of the interviews. (emphasis added)
But Blair inexplicably
did not find time to share with Parliament- and hence the public- the other
revelation made by Kamel: viz “all weapons- biological, chemical, missile,
nuclear were destroyed.”
(Hansard,
26 March 2003: Column 235W; http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmhansrd/vo030326/text/30326w05.htm#30326w05.html_wqn3)
It was a disgraceful deception of
Parliament; but other MPs should have been less gullible, more inquisitive, and
have scrutinized Government assertions with greater commitment by demanding
evidence.
It is a huge pity they didn’t: if
they had, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians and 179 brave British
military may still be alive today. And many more would not be maimed for life.
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